Ideas

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Teufel
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Ideas

Postby Teufel » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:32 pm

SPLIT GYROS
The idea for split gyros is this. The Mechs using a 305 rated engine or larger require 4 tons of gyros, if you would try to use Extra-Light Gyros, those take up 8 critical spaces, but the Center Torso only has room for 6 critical spaces. Meaning you'd have to use some gyros in the Outer Torsos. My idea has some rules. If using Compact Gyros, or normal, they have to be in the same critical space...
Outer Torso - Upper and Lower
Using Compact gyros, those weigh 1.5 tons and two per crit space. I am saying you have the use the same crit and must list either inside or outside of the critical space. Your human gyros are called your 'Inner Ear'. +2 piloting because you can better relate the mech. This frees up the space needed like for a command console or a larger weapon in the Center Torso. Normally a Light or medium mech can't house a Command Console, they don't have the space, this enables one to have a center torso mounted Command Console.

Triple Heat Sinks
The Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks uses 3 critical spaces, - 2 heat dissipation and weighs 1 ton
The Clan Double Heat Sinks uses 2 critical spaces, -2 heat dissipation and weighs 1 ton
The Inner Sphere can produce a triple heat sink. The Inner Sphere can produce now, Clan tech, because of the number of Clan Tech inside the sphere, one just needs to spend more time manufacturing. The guts of the Inner Sphere DHS are removed from a DHS, and the shells of a Clan DHA, are removed, and chucked over the shoulder. Three Clan DHS Guts, split one, and 1.5 installed in each Inner Sphere DHS shell. This is used as a model for a manufacturing design. Never used as 'Working' models. Each 3 crits, dissipates 3 heat and weighs 1.5 tons. According to the books, all engines can house any heatsink, first ten are free. Additional 10 THS weigh 15 tons, takes 30 critical spaces. Can only be used in Inner Sphere 250 + rated Standard or Inner Sphere 250 + XL rated engines. Because the 250 + rated engines can house them inside. This prevents 'super mechs'.
This also allows for IS mechs to use Clan weapons without needing extensive refit due to heat

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Re: Ideas

Postby director » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:01 am

Note I'm not the MHB, the broker may have another comment on all of this, however I'm weighing in.

Teufel wrote: SPLIT GYROS
The idea for split gyros is this. The Mechs using a 305 rated engine or larger require 4 tons of gyros, if you would try to use Extra-Light Gyros, those take up 8 critical spaces, but the Center Torso only has room for 6 critical spaces. Meaning you'd have to use some gyros in the Outer Torsos. My idea has some rules. If using Compact Gyros, or normal, they have to be in the same critical space...
Outer Torso - Upper and Lower
Using Compact gyros, those weigh 1.5 tons and two per crit space. I am saying you have the use the same crit and must list either inside or outside of the critical space. Your human gyros are called your 'Inner Ear'. +2 piloting because you can better relate the mech. This frees up the space needed like for a command console or a larger weapon in the Center Torso. Normally a Light or medium mech can't house a Command Console, they don't have the space, this enables one to have a center torso mounted Command Console.


Unless you have a canon reference on Split Gyros, I'm afraid its too complex, and a waste of time for us to do anything with at this time. We are not going to be opening up custom units or BTM canon units for at least a little while longer, because we have higher priority items to work through. Once the staff is caught up, then maybe we can revisit. For now I'm saying no on this.

Triple Heat Sinks
The Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks uses 3 critical spaces, - 2 heat dissipation and weighs 1 ton
The Clan Double Heat Sinks uses 2 critical spaces, -2 heat dissipation and weighs 1 ton
The Inner Sphere can produce a triple heat sink. The Inner Sphere can produce now, Clan tech, because of the number of Clan Tech inside the sphere, one just needs to spend more time manufacturing. The guts of the Inner Sphere DHS are removed from a DHS, and the shells of a Clan DHA, are removed, and chucked over the shoulder. Three Clan DHS Guts, split one, and 1.5 installed in each Inner Sphere DHS shell. This is used as a model for a manufacturing design. Never used as 'Working' models. Each 3 crits, dissipates 3 heat and weighs 1.5 tons. According to the books, all engines can house any heatsink, first ten are free. Additional 10 THS weigh 15 tons, takes 30 critical spaces. Can only be used in Inner Sphere 250 + rated Standard or Inner Sphere 250 + XL rated engines. Because the 250 + rated engines can house them inside. This prevents 'super mechs'.
This also allows for IS mechs to use Clan weapons without needing extensive refit due to heat

Adrian


To my knowledge, noone in the Inner Sphere in BTM lore canon yet, has the ability to make Clan tech, certainly not in the numbers necessary to justify something so rash as to waste equipment that could be used to keep aging ClanTech Equipment up to spec (as the Clans haven't exactly been as active against the IS in the last decade in Character. A few skirmishes sure, but nothing to the degree to justify this.

Secondly. I think your idea of what a heat sink is, is incorrect. Its not jsut some hunk of metal that helps transfer heat from the reactor to the air. Its probably mokre like the coolant units used in Fission Reactors, which likely involves pumps, and water. (The reason most of the Novels in canon describe steam when they are punctured). You can't take the guts of a ClanTech component and expect to stick it inside an IS thing. Even if you did have the ability to replicate some ClanTech Hardware, replication is not the same thing as being able to design new things based on it. Also, while an engine can in fact hold different types... its my understanding that's dependent on tech base. a ClanTech engine can have ClanTech heatsinks, an IS engine Can't. It would be like taking the coolant system from a BMW and sticking it on a Ford Pinto.

Again, unless there are canon sources saying this tech does exit in Battletech Canon, (and clear start and introduction dates), I would be hesitant in seeing too much new technology just being added willy nilly. Especially since to leverage it, you'd need to have a unit that used it, which right now we aren't adding new non canon units. We have a backlog of old BTM canon units that will need converted and soon.

As for ClanTech Weapons, when we allowed Player Customized rides a while back (we aren't allowing new ones, existing ones are fine.) I believe it might have been allowed to mix them on a one off situation. I'm not going to have the Broker wasting time with this right now.

To the community feel free to discuss the merits of the ideas, but for now, we are not soliciting new tech, (and please stop emailing our staff members about it.) When this policy changes in the future we'll let you know.
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Teufel
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Re: Ideas

Postby Teufel » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:27 pm

Referencing Canon on Gyros.
All mechs can have Compact, Standard, XL and or Hardened. A Charger with a 400 Standard or a 400 XL you can't physically install 8 XL gyros, because the space required for them is four CT, dedicated and 2 CT (bottom) that leaves you with 2 additional gyro slots that need to be installed in the Outer Torsos. All I ask is we use Split - Standard or Split Compact. Light and Medium Mechs are too small to house a command console in the head. Why not in the CT?
I say it has to be in the same slot in both outers, and if compact, you must indicate inside or outside of that slot, to avoid mech sickness (car or sea sickness from the gyros...

Triple Heat Sinks: Saying the Inner Sphere doesn't have the capability... have you read about how Nova Cats surrender to Kurita and then started to help them work on the Kurita designs, to the point, in 3067 Luthien Armor Works was making Clan components, just not enough to refit all the mechs or update the ones they had to Clan tech.
Snow Raven is in Outworlds, Ghost Bear - Rasal..., Wolf in Arc-royal... Terra and some other places. There are Inner Sphere Technicians who can build Clan and Star League era mechs, weapons, and etc... All I am asking is the ability to work on them in the game. The initial models will have the same RHS problem, failure during working operations, why he's insisting to spend extra time in making them.
---
Example of the Split Gyros:
The Hussar has a 5 ton ER Large Laser. By putting a Heavy Medium Laser in the Arms and using the 3 tons for Command Console in the CT. XL the engines, and increase armor from 1.5 tons to almost 4.5, with a ECM Suite (C) in the head. With jump jets... using the 250 XL, not... 8/12/8

We know the command consoles, Clans won't use them only IS do. They can shorten training periods from years to months, some cases weeks or enough for an Infantry to climb into a captured mech and know how to walk. Means you can now use light and medium mechs as training mechs.
---
No one can use or make Clan components, huh. So Kurita has been able to sell mechs with just Inner Sphere and not Clan access points. Really, thought they only sold those to mercs and Marik, they retained the Universal Parts configuration (OMNI-MECH) ability. If you read the 3058 Technical Manual, you'll see the Blackjack reference. They were caught selling mechs and the people couldn't figure out how to install the Clan stuff, seems someone forgot to add the wiring for that to work properly.

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Teufel
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Re: Ideas

Postby Teufel » Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:56 pm

What I am trying is to get enough space needed for a command console in a light/ medium mech.

The Canon on the Triple Heat Sinks... the Kurita domain in 3058 during the manufacture of the first Omni-mechs had a pair of plug-ins. The FWL bought Omni-Mechs they were made some noise that the Omni-Mechs they bought didn't have the right connectors, but the ones in Kurita domain could use Clan weapons. This caused some problems, but once they realized the second generation plugs could use either tech base... but it was not sold to Marik or to Mercenaries unless they were friendly... under Kurita contracts... So there is evidence of Inner Sphere making Clan tech and Clan conversions. What I want to do is use the guts of the Clan. To explain it another way, the Inner Sphere Double Strength Freezers is in a 12 oz. bottle. Only it has 8 fluid ounces of beer. The Clan Double Strength Freezer is a 8 oz bottle holding 8 fluid ounces. I drank the two Inner Sphere beers, and opened three Clan beer cans. I poured 1.5 in the Inner Sphere and recapped them.

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Re: Ideas II

Postby Teufel » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:27 am

Actually there is canon, sort of. For making this, even doing the modifications.

The Savannah Master's 25 rated fusion plant, S. L. Lewis had almost 2000 and he modified it before he designed, fabricated, and personally tested the tank during it's trials. Then he gave his last ten to a manufacturing firm for them to have enough pieces to make the 25 rated 1 ton engines for him.

Second, the Wolf's Dragoons did do training of Techs in Clan Build and Repair. Luthien Armor Works did initially have two connectors, one Inner Sphere and one Clan and whoops sold only the Inner Sphere to Marik. The later generation Omni-mechs use a single connector, they figured out the clamps holding the weapon or gear in place could be powering and controlling the weapon and such with a separate plug in. Or did I miss read it?

Anyway, Teufel was supposed to be a Technician who had spent 14 years after Tukayyid, salvaging on Tukayyid, and another 27 years as an instructor at NAIS, he prefers to call it NASTI-U, he's a technician, and the last 8 he was the chair of his department. He was supposedly recruited by the 7th Cav to help update and work on bettering the 7th Cav as a whole. New Avalon Science & Tech Institute hyphen University, NASTI-U.

I have also been working on a LAT, it is a LAND AIR TANK. It shifts into a tank, a wheeled tank, then into an aerofighter. Only it has a Heavy Medium Laser, a Clan ECM and a Clan Active Probe, the rest is room for the infantry so you can drop a company of JJ into a planet with a unit... without having to land...

The Triple Heat Sinks, a better than a RHS, keeps shutting down, this won't and one of the reasons I did this, was to enable me to install a Naval PPC in a dropship, I call it the HellCat as opposed to the 'Kraken Cat'... everyone clears out of the way of a Naval PPC, enabling someone to be able to land a unit. More user friendly, and 'PPC' rounds are 'Piece of the Stars' cheap, Krakens cost money.
Only be used in IS engines, can only be used in 250 plus standard or XL and each additional one weighs 1.5 tons, takes up 3 criticals and dissipates three heat. A coolant pod is all you need for the mix, after the third shot, blow the coolant I mean it literally, dump it behind the ship. Hit the coolant pod to refill the now empty THS. Will need multiple, but after next third one again, do the same.

You are clearly not up to speed on fission piles. The most successful design I have heard about is a liquid sulfur fission pile. It can get 312 % power compared to the others, and when injected with hydrogen it does better because the thermal exchange is a two/three stage. But if a single molecule of O2 is injected, it explodes like a tactical nuke. Some warships can use this and instantly recharge their capacitors as if they were connected to a space station. It is always kept in an Oxygen free room. Which means the engineers need to be sealed but they live with that.

If you have an underground fire, you can extinguish it, using a liquid ammonia, a sealed tube and a heat sink. The fire heats the ammonia and it rises up in a one way connected tube. The heat sink sends down nearly frozen Ammonia and pulls the heat from the area as it warms up. No heat, and you break the triangle of fire. Fuel, O2 and a source of heat or a spark. This is how the Alaskan Pipe Line is kept below freezing, under it that is. Cade can probably give you a better explanation, he's up there.

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Re: Ideas

Postby director » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:18 pm

I'm going to wait for JonAllen to have a chance to read and comment on this.

However, arguing with me is not helping your case.

The reality is, we are not generally tracking hardware at the equipment level for logistics. Unit MUCOs may be doing so for the fun of it, but that's a level of detail that goes beyond what we as a site care about. (If the individual unit cares, that's fine.) Furthermore, even if I agreed with you and said okay it sounds canon. you wouldn't be able to use it because you can't just swap parts back and forth between existing mechs. You would need a new mech that incorporates it. (We do not currently allow players to customize however they want their units. We have let Player Characters, for a time ti submit and if approved use a Custom unit, yes, but we aren't supporting that moving forward right now. In the not to distant future, it may come back, but we don't have the resources and time to track it right now so its easier to say no to what will be more headache for the MHB for now. When Markus Carns is ready to discuss this idea, he'll let me know, the staff will review what rules we plan to try and use then, and then, only then, would perhaps BTM custom Parts become a thing.

Also, we are not Catalyst, FanPro, FASA, or Topps. We try to review changes as they release them, but in the last year or so we haven't had the resources to move ahead. (We are only in the 3090s presently, and it looks like Canon is off in the Dark Ages now well ahead of us.)

So, at this point, Go ahead talk about this see if other players even are remotely interested, but I'm moving on because I have more important issues to deal with. But maybe this shouldn't be in the Design forum, but in the Battlemech Forum?
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Re: Ideas

Postby Storywriter J. Allen » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:57 pm

We don't devise "BTM house rules" toward construction and new components as part of construction rules. To my knowledge, never have. Not gonna start now. So if it doesn't exist in canon it doesn't exist here.

Once upon a time someone suggested a BTM rule for allowing double heat sinks on vehicles. That's one I actually see the logic in. Why can mechs only have double heat sinks? BUT....adopting such a rule, effectively renders every Level 2 tech vehicle with single heat sinks obsolete, that includes new canon designs from the 3100s on. That thought in itself incapsulates several of the problems that I am now going to explain.

Letting the Inner Sphere powers produce lots of Clan tech or even make it their new standard.... I get the logic, I really do. They've had decades to reverse engineer the tech and use it themselves. But canon didn't go that route, we can't either. I can understand why canon writers and builders decided not to go that route, though it makes more sense from gamemaster sense than it does in-universe. They didn't go that route because it would instantly render obsolete anything and everything built prior to that. If the Inner Sphere made Clan tech mainsteam in 3100, then every previous design would be some level of obsolete. They didn't want to do that.

They didn't want to wipe out all the previous minis, and TROs and record sheets. They didn't want to render everyone's army of painted Battlemasters and Catapults instantly obsolete as far as the tabletop game or the universe is concerned.

So that's canon reasons, their justifications. Moving on to us...

The vast majority of our "new equipment" is coming from canon publications. Our timeline may have a different story but the tech is the same. So how the tech progresses is also the same. We have allowed some in-house BTM-approved designs, but it all sticks to the canon construction rules.

As it is, we already have a difficult time keeping everyone on the same page in terms of the story and events of our non-canon universe. It's a bit of a learning curve already for a new player. Adding in tech items and rules they've never heard of renders a bunch of canon books obsolete that contain the construction rules, and we're not in a position to start printing our own.

So that's why we don't do stuff like this.

Making do with what canon offers keeps a lifeline to the larger Battletech community and allows us to make use of its products. Anything that detracts from that, however beneficial it may seem in the moment, is a "1 step forward...2 steps back" idea in the long run.
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Re: Ideas

Postby Dulio12385 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:19 am

Well here is a thought since we're throwing ideas around; Why not appoint Assistant Staff members if only to lessen the burdens of clerical work so the Staff Members can focus on more pressing concerns like the story line, integration and other community related activities? The MHB in particular is the most clerically intensive post based on my experience, why not shift some of the clerical labor in small distinct fields to volunteers which the MHB can exercise oversight functions over. I was going to propose this months ago but then the big unpleasantness happened and I couldn't send or receive PM's in the old forum

Off the top of my head you could have assistants focused on the following for example;

1. Transaction Processing: This guy would be in charge of processing the buying, selling and trading of equipment.
2. Research and Development: This guy would be in charge of updating the equipment sold by the broker list relative to the new material being published by Catalyst.
3. Post Operations: This guy would handle salvage.

These three are essentially going to function like a call center; first line of call for MUCOs, they then create transaction tickets which already notes the request, the recommend action and the processes (aka maths, bill, changes), All the MHB has to do is check his records to see everything is above board and it goes through. Whereas at present all this crap is handled by one unpaid martyr.

I'm of course willing to assist in fleshing out and organizing this idea. After all I want my refit kit for my Mackie.
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Re: Ideas

Postby Storywriter J. Allen » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:01 am

Staff structuring/restructuring is actually something we are talking about right now. It's just not a public discussion. That is because the existing staff (and prior staff) have the most experience in terms of knowing what we're good at, what we need to improve upon, where there are holes in staff efficiency, etc.

We (the staff) decide how best to operate, what structure, what positions, how to divvy up responsibility, then we go from there.

I'm not sure if you were here for this but we took a big hit when our forums crashed. This is the new forum and we're still playing catchup in terms of the downtime and what was lost from that. So not a lot of "new" things are happening right now. This isn't the best time for new initiatives and new ideas. We're still working through the backlog, we're still working to play catchup on events that happened in the universe while the forums were down, plus filling vacant staff positions and related tasks.

I (and I dare say, we, the staff) appreciate new thoughts and ideas. Just recognize that a lot of this stuff you are throwing out there isn't new ideas. They are ideas we discussed years ago and made decisions on, or ideas we are even discussing days/weeks/months/years before you suggested it. We've been at this for a while.

In the years that I've been part of BTM I've observed a trend. New people come in, look around, and decide they can remold the place in a day, and start discussion threads like this one. You gotta realize that BTM has been in operation for many years. We have ways of doing things that don't often make sense to newcomers, but make perfect sense to us, driven by policies/procedures, the technology behind our website contract system and other concerns. We have ways of doing things that aren't always the most efficient (being honest here) but are driven by practical limitations.

A suggestion, if you have a new idea, before you blaze a trail with it, or swamp us with 4 or 8 new ideas in a week (which takes time to respond to coherently and thoughtfully, easily sucking up our volunteer staff's leisure time). Take a gem of an idea, run it by someone via PM, test the waters, trace the backstory of that idea and see if there's a history to it already. See if there are any pitfalls or problems that another BTM player or staffer might be able to point out to you. See if it is in fact a "new" idea or approach. If it passes all that and still feels like a great ideas. Then flesh it out in writing, then post it. One idea at a time, give it 100% focus and our concentration for best effect, not a machine gun fire of notions and thoughts. Give us one prepared, well-thought out, detailed idea or suggestion that you'd honestly stake money on.

It'll also go a lot farther if you can generate more community interest that shows us that a significant number of our community are behind this idea. You can achieve this through instruments like forum polls and discussions, where its not aimed at the staff yet, but the community. So that when an idea is brought to the staff, it has a following. That will obviously catch the staff's eye.

It'll look more professional, it'll be taken very seriously, and discussed, and we go from there.

We can work with that. What we struggle with is a thread like this one, where its a battering ram of ideas. All of which we feel compelled to break down and respond to thoughtfully and politely. But its hard to have a coherent discussion when the pace and topic moves in such a random fashion through the universe from thing to thing to thing to thing, each of which really deserves a separate conversation.

I hope that makes sense. I mean no offense. I am simply offering ideas for a more constructive conversation that (I think) betters the odds that some idea you bring to the table gets the best chance of success.
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Re: Ideas

Postby Teufel » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:52 am

Yes, I know you have ways of doing things. I am not trying to change that. My posts are always two behind yours. I make my posts and then try to figure out how to explain it better. I am used to slower replies. Where it takes us a week to normally now have a reply in less than a day or sometimes minutes.

All you needed to do was ask for help on the upgrades. I would enjoy helping, why, I use the gaming as a distraction technique. I am a Veteran and have some issues.

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I have been playing for years, but this is my first forum. Email and before that play by move using snail mail.

If you would like I can give my service branch and my military occupational specialty (MOS) using the proper military code, well the one I remember, they decided to change the name and that... no longer an 'overseas' veteran of the USMC Infantryman (0311), it has to be an 'Infantry Marine', now. I've only had to date, TWO, Private messages. Ah, I thought this was the design submission forum, where we were encouraged to bring this up so all could toss it around and think about it. Not standard forum, the design submission, if you had 'off-the-wall' I'd enjoy that and normally have this entire... there. This I thought was the 'dart board' area where we could toss out an idea and get others to think about it and get some ideas free flowing.

I am not trying to argue. I thought arguing was in all caps and had a lot of ! Where one was not calmly talking but shouting it. Send me the format, please, and I will enjoy doing the upgrade kits, or try to. Normally I do all the work in my head. This is actually a change. I can even do the critical spaces, sometimes I move them to better allow something. A competent Tech I believe can do some of it. The Impossible I can do immediately, miracles take a bay, misquoting Mr. Scott.

I am not doing the Hulk/ Loki 'Puny God' thing.

Also why I insist on 'General Order 12', no one hits a tech working on a fusion plant. That is bad form, as in it can lead to problems for a properly run base, my fatigues aren't rad proof, are yours? Most people can understand this insistence, and 'Domino Bays' incidents, normally bad too. I had someone walk into a bay, I was playing a merc and they weren't in the unit. I used a sonic stunner and put them in the medical cryogenic tube before I called security. They said that was too aggressive. Personally, as a merc, it wasn't even close. to allow that was to allow you to have nothing left in the bay. Five words no commander ever wants to here, "Hey, where's my ATLAS going?"

Like using a Guardian VTOL Computer and Printer, if you read the 3026 Tech Manual on the Guardian VSTOL, it has a unique computer and it can walk you through what you need to do to replace a part. It can be hooked into a mech mover, using 'Gamma Setting Two' and remote diagnose the mechs and anything else, see it talks to the DC computer. If you hook it into an Advanced Field Comm Unit, you can use it, in doing a 'fax line' your mechs and stuff in each bay. I have tried this at a +2. Using Tech Genius and 'extra time' a total of +6. If you have a half way decent tech ability, you almost always ace it, save when you do a critical failure roll. When you are doing this, you always record what you are doing, so you can see exactly where you need to change to make it better.

VSTOLs are 0.05 x tonnage, VTOL is 0.10 x tonnage. All aerofighters unless noted are always VSTOL. Amphibious is always 0.10, diving is always 0.10, hydrofoil and hovercraft lift is always 0.10. Dune Buggy is -1 cruise speed. That's just off the top of my head. Wonder why there is no VTOL aerofighters... my mistake, those are called LAMs. I did work up a LAT, a Land Air Tank. I ramble, why its hard sometimes to hold the line on certain things. It's me, not you.
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