Real world 100-300 ton boats for comparison purposes?

[Storywriter J. Allen]

For MHB custom design purposes I'm interested in boats. We've got a couple coastal cutters and the Mauna Kea, and the BTM-designed Ticonderoga, plus Sea Skimmers. But that's about it.

I'm thinking about designing (or asking someone to design) a new 100-300 ton displacement hull boat. Displacement hull vessels built using combat vehicle rules can go up to 300 tons.

I'm looking for modern (so not WW2) real world examples as inspiration. If anyone wants to help contribute to the research.

I've found a few, they are usually dubbed "Attack Craft", "Missile boat" or "Patrol Boat".

What I've found so far:

Rauma-class Missile Boat
Hamina-class Missile Boat
(will edit this list as I find more)

Basically, I'm interested in starting a new unit or sub-unit that has a strong wet naval component. But I'm thinking they don't just use boats, they might be a strong partner with an in-universe shipyard that designs and builds new wet naval craft.

[Dulio12385]

Actually most modern combat boats falling in the 100-300 ton range fall under the Fast Attack Craft category, which was a cold war evolution of the torpedo boat. They are usually fast, armed with anti-ship missiles as a primary weapon and an array of 12mm machine guns or automatic grenade launchers as secondary weapons and have limited seagoing capability, being intended primarily to operate from home ports. The class that typifies this is the Komar-class which is essentially a crotch rocket built around 2 Styx-class anti-ship missiles.

In general Fast Attack Craft tend to be cheap, fast and over gunned. They are meant to swarm capital ships and play a numbers game; what's the loss of ten FACs compared to the loss of say a destroyer or, heaven forbid, an aircraft carrier. Point of fact North Korea, Iran and China have built their defensive naval stance on this premise, though the latter is shifting toward land launched anti-ship ballistic missiles.

In Battletech terms my opinion of a good Fast Attack Boat would have a speed of around 5/8 to 7/11, be armed with Arrow IV missiles with at least 4 tons of ammo, a turret mounted array of point defense weapons to fend off aircraft and other watercraft, ideally with crit-seeking capabilities since a mobility kill equals a sinking in the middle of the ocean, and a Guardian ECM to maximize its survival. Then you can add in a variable amount of special equipment based on needs of a given buyer; cargo for seagoing capability or troop carrying duties, active probes for submarine detection, etc. Armor is usually of minor priority since FACs are not meant to stand and trade blows, they're meant to hit and run.

If you're feeling luxurious you can make an Omni-Boat, so you have a craft that can shift between roles; like the Prime Config is a Fast Attack craft, the A config is a high endurance Patrol Craft, the B config if a Littoral combat vessel (essentially switching the Arrow IV for a Thumper Mortar), etc.

From the Komar-class which is essentially the progenitor of this type of ship you have a general trend toward bigger and heavier designs like the Gepard-class, that have all the attributes of a FAC plus seagoing capability, effectively straddling the line between a missile boat and corvette, which is the lowest class of ship of the line.

And here is the list you want for comparison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... at_classes

[Storywriter J. Allen]

Thanks, especially for that wiki-page find. I'm liking the Fast Attack Craft category. I'm surprised at how many ships are basically derivatives of the La Combattante, at least in design choices. But they look good to me so it works.

Your thinking generally echoes mind. Except perhaps that I favor LRMs over the Arrow IV. Particularly the Enhanced LRMs. So they are more versatile and more useful in a close quarters fight, plus I like the LRM special munitions. But I can see trade-offs either way.

I'd love to see an Omni in a displacement hull boat. That would be cool, and Omni versatility is always more interesting in a writing game like ours.

Of our existing canon lineup, I really like the Mauna Kea (TRO-wise, not so much its looks). Aside from sporting a nice array of weapons (though I can think of things I'd use in place of all those MGs), it also has that troop transport/cargo capability, which really multiplies the array of missions it might be suitable for. Like I said for a writing game like ours that's useful for story fodder.

[Dulio12385]

Well ideally the FAC swarm should not be in a close quarters fight. It should be at least one map away, lobbing Arrow IVs at enemy capital ships. An ELRM would be more suited to a Patrol Boat type vessel, which typically has more armor and direct fire weapons as they are intended to engage targets at relatively, given that close in naval means visual, close range. If you went the omni-boat route you could have the Prime Configuration, the FAC, be escorted by the A Configuration, the Patrol Boat at a 3:1 ratio; the Primes pound targets while the A swats away anything that gets close.

[DeputyDirector]

I would like the LRMs over the Arrow only for the TAG issue. Gotta have TAG to make Arrow launchers their most effective, right?

[Storywriter J. Allen]

The general combat environment is also different from RL. Much less likely to run into true, bonafide capital ships on the water. They are just rarer in BT. Much more likely to be dealing with shore targets and other water boats of 20-300 tons. Coastal cutters, riverboats, submarines, Sea Skimmers etc.

[Dulio12385]

@DD: Actually Arrow can fire with and without TAG. Though yes TAG makes Arrow IV infinitely more devastating but that can be solved by having the said missile boat have a 5-ton hangar for an Armored Ferret VTOL with a TAG pod mounted as external ordnance.

@LM: I actually tried making a 300-ton Fast Attack Craft on SSW. The concept is dead in the water, forgive the pun, because once you hit 300 tons the Btech rules keep you firmly at 1/2 speed which is really stupid because its essentially applying terrestrial physics to watercraft. Any idiot knows that size and weight do not directly correlate to speed on the water since the cost of weight is not borne by the craft but by displacement. This is how blue whales can grow so large since they do not have to carry their own weight. In fact its sometimes the inverse, larger craft have bigger engines, bigger propulsion systems and so can actually be faster than smaller ships. Case in point, the Gepard-class, which is 370 tons, happily manages 44 knots, while the Skold-class at 274 tons has a max of 60+ knots.

Your best bet is stick to canon hovercraft if you want to keep the "fast attack" concept and maybe have 100-300 ton boat as a supply tender or helicopter carrier. The Regulator is already perfectly suited to this role having a Gauss Rifle and RAC/5 armed variants for direct attack and an Arrow IV variant for over-the-horizon and anti-aircraft capability.

[DeputyDirector]

Could also use the 300 tonner as an amphibious carrier, like the US Marines do. An opening bow so the hovercraft can deploy from inside the vessel... the USS WASP (I think that's right...) is the only one that comes to mind at the moment.

[Storywriter J. Allen]

Dulio, do you feel like there's a good maximum weight ceiling then for vessels of decent speed?

Something above 100 tons, but less than the 300 max? Is there a sweet spot in there where its still a good idea?

[Dulio12385]

Dulio, do you feel like there's a good maximum weight ceiling then for vessels of decent speed?

Something above 100 tons, but less than the 300 max? Is there a sweet spot in there where its still a good idea?

Actually more like a sweet class; Hydrofoils solidly beat Hovercraft in terms of maximum weight (they can go as high as 100 tons) and speed (they actually have a discount on weight for engines but are capped at 8/12), trading away the hovercraft's ability to operate nearly anywhere for specializing completely on water. You can easily make a 100-ton 8/12 Hydrofoil and still have 40 tons left over for armor and weapons. Go Fuel Cell Engine if you intend to operate near your home port all the time so you can add more guns or Fusion Engine if you want to range out into the blue oceans with no gas worries.

Personally I was also contemplating this kind of merc unit after playing Suikoden V; I want to play on a world with no oceans but would be perforated by lakes, swamps and rivers.